'Up Front' Podcast Continues the Conversation on Race Relations in New Episode
Jun 15, 2020 11:19AM
By Jason Huddle
Episode 23: Real Conversation on Race Relations (Pt. 2)
Episode 63: Real Conversation on Race Relations (Pt. 2)
After an intense episode discussing race relations last week, 'Up Front with Cabarrus Magazine' continued the conversation this week in the latest installment this week.
Jason Huddle 00:00
Just ahead on this episode of Up Front with Cabarrus Magazine.
Addul El Ali 00:04
When you say liberty and justice for all, that may not be the case every time in every circumstance, but it's an ideal to shoot for. It's not saying this is the way it is it is saying this is the way we want it to be. This is the way we envision it to be. And it should be.
Jason Huddle 00:22
We continue our discussion of race relations in Cabarrus County and in the nation tackling such subjects as media manipulation, perception and white privilege.
Sam Dozier 00:33
White privilege is a feeling it's an understanding that if I do what I feel is the right thing to do. Nothing's going to happen to me. But when we go and do something, we understand that those same types of things don't apply to us.
Jason Huddle 00:46
No matter your racial identity, you're going to want to listen to this episode, part two of our conversation on race relations sponsored by Atlantic Bay Mortgage group, Cabarrus Arena and Events Center, Cabarrus Eye Center, Certec Automotive, Concord Downtown Development Corporation, Family Wealth Partners, New Hope Worship Center and Walk Cabarrus. I'm your host Jason Huddle. Welcome to Up Front with Cabarrus Magazine. Welcome my friends once again to Up Front with Cabarrus Magazine. I am your host, Jason Huddle. And I want to first extend my appreciation to you guys, the listeners for your reception of part one, our discussion of race relations in Cabarrus County. It has been received very well. We've gotten a lot of positive feedback and I was very encouraged by that. As we were heading into week two of this discussion. Once again, we're going to be joined today by Sam Dozier and Addul El Ali both African American men who are part of our community. They both live and work in our county and I do want to express my appreciation to them again, for being willing to participate and have some very real conversation. And let me tell you, it got very real. This conversation did not exactly go the way I had originally planned it to be honest with you, when we decided to have this conversation and do a two part series on this topic, my goal was to learn my goal was to get perspective that I didn't have. And that was happening right up until the last about 16 minutes of our conversation, at which point it took a turn and I'm not exactly sure why or how. And this is not to say that anyone got unprofessional or got personal. It did not happen like that. These two are gentlemen, they are professionals and at no time, were there any personal attacks thrown so I don't want that to be misconstrued. However, the conversation took a turn to the point that even in my discussions with Sam, after we stopped recording that we felt it wasn't productive. The whole point of this conversation is to learn and to gain perspective. And if we just revert back to our old talking points without listening to each other, then we haven't really accomplished anything. So I say all that to say this. I'm going to play the interview as it happened through the first two breaks. That's exactly how it happened and into the third segment. And then I'm going to come back and talk about what I have learned through these last two episodes, and how you can listen to the parts of the interview that weren't included in this episode, and even some parts from last episode as well. So buckle up. It's gonna be an interesting ride. But it's an informative one, and I promise we will all be better for it, and listening to these men's perspective on race relations, that's coming up right after the break.
Jason Huddle 05:09
Welcome back to the second part of our conversation on race relations in Cabarrus County. I am joined once again by Sam Dozier, and Addul El Ali both of Cabarrus County. Gentlemen, first of all, thank you very much for coming back in to continue the conversation.
Sam Dozier 05:59
Glad to be Hearing thanks for lunch.
Jason Huddle 06:01
Awesome, yeah, I felt bad because as some of you may remember, we we actually have this the third time these gentlemen have been in because the first conversation got erased. And so I felt bad if I'm gonna have to ask these guys to come in three times I had to provide some pizza, just just to incentivize a little bit, so I appreciate that. So let's pick up where we left off. At the end of the last episode, we talked about how the problem is systemic. And I agree with that, I think I think everybody agrees with that. There are definitely problems inherent in the system. The question is, what do we do about it? What can we do as individuals about a system that, from Sam's perspective, puts African Americans at an extreme disadvantage? What can we do about it? Does walking down the street, in our conversation with my mom that we had last week. She made the point. I can walk down the street all day, put my hand up in the air, it doesn't change a thing, so what can we do as individuals to change the system?
Sam Dozier 07:05
Well, I think we're headed in that direction now, because we have a lot of things that have taken place, you know, to change the laws, because that's what has to happen, the law, the way that the laws are written, the policies and all of those type of things are happening that's what needs to be changed. So now we're looking at it and going, okay now we have to start taking it from the streets into the, you know, taking it to the government at this point. And we're getting help now from corporations. You know, NFL now, you know, you got NBA, you got a lot of different entities that understand it. And now they're going to help see it through, hopefully, hopefully, that's what we are. So it is a different feel from the 60s, you know, 60s, that was one part of getting to where we are right now. You need these things. It's um, it's a process. It's ashamed that sometimes the process takes so long, but things are being accomplished each time you go through the process, you know, so I'm looking at it now and I'm going okay, now we got to keep our foot on the gas. And we have to start to, you know, take care of some of the things that the laws are neglecting to allow African Americans to have those type of entitlements.
Jason Huddle 07:25
Addul El Ali 07:28
So I think a couple of things. One, I, just to kind of kick back a little bit. I agree that there are issues that are systemic, but I don't believe that the system in its in and of itself, for example, the criminal justice system, I don't believe that racism is the systemic issue. I think that when we sit for me, at least anyway, when you say systemic, I'm like, what's the follow up after somebody gets out where's the support system for a reduction of recidivism. Where's the support system for, you know, female parents and you know that have babies in prison and get out? What's our back end support, so I think the failures are systemic in that we haven't really addressed the roots through the system. And I think that the level of bureaucracy in the criminal justice system, the level of bureaucracy, in relation to what it takes to really get on the ground as a nonprofit and address this stuff, or what I mean by systemic issues, I also think that when we talk about the system in and of itself, there's been no other system in the history of the world, other than the American system of government that has sought to people go from slavery, to where we are now faster than the African American has, no people in the history of the world have gone from illiterate to by large, literate in this amount of time, anywhere. So I think that we've got to take and you say what can we do as individuals? I think part of this is about us as individuals not existing in our own little American bubble and looking at what America is in the context of a of the world and looking at American society. Yeah, we live in Cabarrus County. Yeah, we live in Concord, we got our own way of doing things. We have our own history here. We have our own, you know, culture central to us, but understanding American history at an individual level in a global context, will help you see that. Are we where we want to be yet? Not quite. But are we where we were? No, not really. Not, It's, I don't and I said this last time. I don't have a frame of reference for a law on the books since I've been born. That said, you're black, you can't, I don't have a frame of reference for having to cross the street because you're coming as a white dude. I don't know what that's like. So I think that, you know, there's an element and I think it was either Booker T Washington and one of them said it, you know, there's a class and he they use the word negros back then. There's a class of Negroes who parade the problem of the Negro in front of the public who keep the pains and the ills at the at the forefront of the American conscience because if they didn't, they'd be out of a job. So I'm talking about the people, the race peddlers the pushers of division, the people that tell our folks that in 2020, somehow when you the world, your oyster here in America, somehow you're still oppressed. So I think us as individuals need to really get get an understanding and be less lazy. When it comes to thinking for ourselves. As a Republican, I'm taking that hat off and I'm saying think for yourself. Don't be lazy as an I know why I'm a Republican. I know what decisions I made. You know what what value is identified with in the platform. I made a conscious decision to do that. Let's not just be Democrat or Republican because grandma was a Democrat or Republican. Let's not be lazy and say well, such and them down at the church told me to vote for candidate a. so I'm a vote for candidate a, we got to not be lazy individually and not be lazy with our thinking. And then like I said, I think we'll start to see some changes. But I think that again, the big problem for us as Americans and society individually is that we've become collectively lazy, and our petition our participation at what counts the most, and that's at the municipal level, where we can have the most impact.
Sam Dozier 12:25
Let me let me touch on a couple of those things. One, it hasn't been that black people have been lazy, you know, per se, what it has been is this, when you look at the constitution back in when the constitution, you know, they were written, that was not to include black people at that point. Do you agree with that? Do you agree that when they said that, pretty much we were three fifths of a human three fifths of a person that was already saying that you will not get the same things, that's in this constitution that other people are privileged to get?
Addul El Ali 13:06
When it was written, yes. but then we got a lot of amendments.
Sam Dozier 13:10
Okay, so now we've been fighting for those same type of things for it. That's what Dr. Martin Luther King was fighting for. He was fighting for some of those same type of things. Not that three fifths at that point. But he was still fighting for the right to vote. We were still fighting for all kinds of rights. We were fighting for rights to be in the armed forces. We were fighting for the rights to vote after we got (Inaudiable). No, we we had to fight for those rights. The right to be you know, once we got in or
Addul El Ali 13:36
There were blacks in the Civil War the 54th was a black civil regiment.
Sam Dozier 13:40
I understand that. Do you understand the fight that it took to get to that,
Addul El Ali 13:43
Right, but your saying we had to fight that fight again.
Sam Dozier 13:46
What about the benefits that came when we got out of the war, we didn't receive the housings that and the loans and all of those things that the other soldiers that fought next to you and died and have the same blood in the soil, we didn't receive those things, did we? Okay, so we had to fight for those again, right? That wasn't because we didn't want housing, or loans, or all of those type things. It wasn't for us because it wasn't designed for us. So we had to continue to fight for. Now, let's come on. Let's keep going. Let's keep going. Now, when we've gone back past the civil rights era, now we're still fighting. We're fighting for rights for voting, understanding all these all these other type of things, right. So when you're saying that, you're saying it as if it did not exist, you're saying it as if it was something we overlook. It wasn't there for us. Let me even go back to the point where I said I wanted to kind of go to the pledge of allegiance, like I say, individual instead of indivisible, right? Okay. And that was something where I hadn't said to pledge allegiance over 35 years, right?
Jason Huddle 14:47
And you were so passionate at the moment, (inaudiable).
Sam Dozier 14:50
But here's the point. Here's the point though. I was so confident that I can recite something that has been drilled in my head when I was a kid that I you know, I can recite it right? So the craziest thing about it by saying individual is actually should be individual because it wasn't indivisible, indivisible means to not allow to divide. We were never together when the Pledge of Allegiance was written that was not with us included. So we were never a part of that. So actually it should be individual. All right, that's a whole nother story. Let's leave that alone. So what I'm getting at is when you're talking about what is written into law, what's written into constitutions, and all of these others, I think, even the national anthem, were looked to stand up and you know, stand up to the national that wasn't written for us either. When you look at the dates that these things were written, and you look at the reasons why they were written, like for instance, when we go back to the Pledge of Allegiance, the Pledge of Allegiance was first written in 1885. Okay, then it was revised in 1992. For the 400th anniversary of Columbus, we already know that story now about Columbus, we already know about how that turned out right? So That was in celebration of an anniversary of the 400 year of Columbus coming into the new world, 1882. Okay, then it was revealed a revised again in 1923. That was coming out of the war in 19. That's when they put in, at that point they put in the United States of America, that's when you start pledging allegiance to the United States of America at that point in 1923. Then we it was revised again in 1942. That's when they started adding in 1954, as well, if they saw an under God, so it was always revised. Okay, but even when you look at the oppression of the black of African Americans, none of that even in all those revisions, they didn't revise any of it for us, any of it and that's why I spoke to the Pledge of Allegiance yesterday, or when we talked about it. That's why I spoke to it because it still doesn't apply to us when it says for all, that is not for us. Those are the things that I'm talking about that needs to change.
Addul El Ali 17:03
So are you and I'm curious about this because what what happens is is is this, you find a, for example, a man that beats his wife, right? And you say, well, Johnny beat his wife and he beat his wife. And then eventually, he stops beating his wife. He goes to counseling, he gets some help, and they go the next 30 years without him beating his wife, how long? At what point do you stop calling Johnny, the wife beater guy? At what point has he paid enough atonement for the sins of the past? At what point? Do we stop going and remember, so now i'm not saying we forget history, but at some point, you got to go yeah, wait, wait, wait, hold on. Wait, whoa, whoa, America in 2020 is not America of 1876. America in 2020 is not even America of 1966. We all agreed to that. I think the difficulty in the end the conversation comes in. When you look at the strides the country has taken and to include African Americans, when you say liberty and justice for all, that may not be the case, every time in every circumstance, but it's an ideal to shoot for. It's not saying this is the way it is, it is saying this is the way we want it to be. This is the way we envision it to be. And it should be when we talked when when when I first got into the political sphere of thinking, one of the first internal arguments I had to have with myself was the fact that I, I had always been adversarial to the idea even in the military when I was in the army. I wasn't combat you know, some people go to the military for there reasons I just didn't want to go jail. So you know, I was getting in trouble got to do something. I was not a patriot at that point. But I get now I understand now that the idea is that you come from a place you have a history, you acknowledge it, but you don't stay there. So I'll give you a prime example. We say America was the original sin of America was racism. We've already debunked that the idea that we have about race ain't the same idea they had about race back then it just the concept wasn't as we envisioned, it wasn't a thing back then. But then we ask ourselves a very curious question. We say, well listen, if the American system is not designed for African Americans to advance, or if it's designed against us, how do we account for a double Obama? How do we account for Clarence Thomas? How do we account right now for the US general, the Air Force general that just got nominated by Trump and approved by us and been approved by the Congress? How do we account for all them black billionaires, millionaires, matter of fact, how do we account for the black Attorney General in the state of Minneapolis? How do we account for black congressmen and Senator? So I agree there's a history in this country that we've got to address and we've got to deal with it. But I think to say that we are under the same level of oppression now, as we were back then does a disservice to the things that are going on now, because that's not the problem. The problem isn't white people rolling around beating up black people. That's not the problem the problem isn't police pulling over people just because they're black. That's not the issue. The major issue facing us in America today, not when 89 90% of our children are being born into single family households, not when 20 something million black babies have been aborted in this country since Roe versus Wade, while I agree with you police brutality is a horrible thing. And we will want to weed that stuff out and we will want to fight against that. The real major issues that are impactful to black people, in a real sense are the ones that we're not talking about the ones that when we say this is these are the issues, you know that impact us the media does a good job of getting us all hyped up about A when B is the real problem. nobody's talking about Hillary just got deposed, nobody's talking about the fact that somebody's going to jail for that email thing. We're not talking about that. Nobody the Joe Biden black comment, nobody's talking about that. I bet you I dare say very few people know about the NAACP chapter president that got caught down there in Timmonsville, South Carolina about to destroy a police officers life and career to promote his own. Done call a man allow a racist and you got the right boy and you've been pulled over the wrong boy and how you gonna ask me I'm a black man in the nice car is the NAACP chapter President put out a Facebook post. And and they did this and they did that. You know what the police Timmonsville police department did. They said roll that beautiful b footage and let the video out. And guess what that was he friendly? Nope. He was professional, he was courteous. he did his job and he we didn't ask him about guns, didn't ask him about drugs, didn't ask him about what he's the black man is doing in a nice car, didn't do any of that. So what I'm saying is and I'll leave it here. What I'm saying is we got to step back and look at this from the lens of logic and the lens of fact and put and leave facts that are not in evidence out of the equation when it comes to the political disposition of black people in America.
Jason Huddle 19:51
I need to throw it to our first break, because we're way over on our on the segment. But when we come back, and I was debating whether I was going to bring this up or not, but you brought it up before we started recording, and I feel like I need to, I want to talk about those two nasty words. White privilege. That's right after this break. We'll be back in just a few minutes.
Jason Huddle 24:22
Welcome back to the program. Before the break, we left a little teaser for you, because I want to get into the subject of white privilege. And even whites are divided on this, about whether there is such a thing. I know a lot of whites will say, look, I work hard for what I have. I know African Americans have told them you did work hard for what you have. But that's not what what white privilege is about. It's about the fact that you probably didn't have it as hard or you had opportunities that other people didn't have. I'll let you guys get into what exactly white privilege is because I'm not sure I quite understand it. But here's my problem. We tell all kids, regardless of race, be proud of who you are. Be proud of what you are. If you're black, be proud of that. If you are a man, be proud of that. If you're a woman, especially girls, we tell girls stand up speak in mind. But as a white heterosexual male, I'm told that I am the bane of everybody's existence and the people like me have done such atrocities that I should be sorry for the fact that I exist. So it seems to me that there's a bit of a double standard here. Be proud of who you are, unless you're white, because if you're white, you should be kneeling and apologizing for being white. That's what white privilege sounds like to me, correct me please, if I'm wrong.
Sam Dozier 26:07
Okay, um, white privilege, in my opinion, is this. First of all, if you remove the word white, and just privilege, that is what everyone is basically, trying to have, we all try to have privileges. But when the privileges are only seemed to work for white people, in certain situations, that's when it becomes white privilege, because there's nothing wrong with the privileges that white people are receiving. What makes it wrong is when I can't receive the same type of privileges. For instance, something's are subtle. And then some things are obvious. You know, let's go back to subtleness. You can name it back even in days of Emmett Till this is you can go there we're not even gonna go all the way back to slavery, but let's just start with Emmett Till that wasn't right for this type of thing. That was a white lady understanding if she said certain thing, that something was going to happen to this black young black man, she understood that from the beginning, she understood that if I say he whistled at me that something was going to take place because I have just said that I was uncomfortable and I felt threatened. And you already know what ended up happening with Emmett Tills situation.
Jason Huddle 27:15
He was lynched.
Sam Dozier 27:16
Yes, he was lynched. And this wasnt even bad police officers. This was by the regular city citizens in that community, right, which is another white privilege. They felt that if they go and find this person and take the law into their own hands, that nothing was going to happen to them. They did so white privilege is a feeling it's an understanding that if I do what I feel is the right thing to do. Nothing's going to happen to me. Sometimes they don't think just because I'm white, it's not gonna happen to me. No, they understand that it's just not going to happen to me. But when we go and do something, we understand that those same types of things don't apply to us. Society has made it clear that if a certain type of people a certain type of people, not only will the people come out quickly, but they're also going to come out with a mindset that this is a threat because you said it was a threat. And then that's when everything else starts to happen, then you start having, you know, innocent bystanders, innocent people being killed for false accusations, you know, whether it was immaterial whistling, or whether it was this young gentleman bird watching, if he didn't leave the scene, we probably be hashtagging him right now, you know, and so on and so forth. So white privilege is just bad because of the word white in front of it. The privilege should exist for everybody.
Addul El Ali 28:37
So I'm going to be on the complete opposite of this one. I think white privilege is a great excuse. It's a fantastic excuse. And here's what I mean by that. Nobody talks about the fact that Asian Americans have the highest salary of anybody in the country. Nobody talks about that Asians have the best living standards of any group of people by and large in the United States of America, Japanese people. Caribbean's have the highest percentage of degreed people in their workforces when you break them out by groups. Here's what I'm saying, I'm saying that the idea that just because somebody has a different color skin they have let me let me break it down like this. First thing you got to do is define white for me, which nobody can do. You can't define white because you got a Scotch Irish. You got French, German, you got people from Portugal, you got Spanish people that are considered white. So what do we mean by white? What does that even mean?
Sam Dozier 29:35
The absent of black.
Addul El Ali 29:36
Alright, but then you got black people. We just talked about the Mustapha (inaudiable) before, who is black as me and you but he's right. So what these these ideas, these terms, these things get thrown in to create vagary. Here's what I'm saying, in any society. Now again, this comes with stepping back and looking at this in the lens and looking at where we are in the world. Global lens, it's hard to look at this and we don't exist here in America in a bubble, these things didn't just have the term white privilege didn't come out of nowhere. Most of what you're going to find is that when you look at social scientists and any of the literature on social sciences, white privilege is a proxy word for class. That's why they say when a black girl talks proper English, she's talking white, because it's a proxy word for class. So let's get to where are we really talking about, you got some money, so you could do stuff that other people can't do. And in a country where most of the people are white, most of the lawyers are white. Most of the doctors are white. Most of the judges are white. Most of the police department is white, most of them because most of the people are white. That term could be used in such a way to make people think there's an undue advantage that people get. Now am I supposed to fault you because your mommy and daddy made good decisions? Because they were like, yeah, we're gonna work our tails off. Leave him a will leave In the house all of a sudden that's a white privilege you got that couldn't be a do the right thing privilege, we'll call it. That couldn't be a you come from good people privilege. The other side of this argument. And for me anyway, it said it for me It looked at because I didn't grow up with that. That wasn't a I don't. This is a new idea, this new term that just now, what we're going to have to do, what we're going to have to do in this discussion about white privilege is ask ourselves a question. Were were African Americans who were brought here as slaves acculturated into a society and the answer is yes, that's how we got here we were it was a process called inculturation. When we were acculturated into this society, did we take on the beauty norms of a society? Yes, it happens anywhere. There's two groups of people that one group conquers another group of people, the beauty standards of the people who did the conquering is what gets taken on? So is this the overdue? It's just we want it to be beauty because we're no that's just the way societies and if you look at a society like a living thing, right, you look at a society like it's born, it has a lifecycle, and then it declines and dies. If you're looking at a society from that context, have we had the most lovely conversation about beauty standards in this country? No, you look at all the black facing and the 1920s and 30s advertisement about the watermelon and you know, all the, what they call them, they call the crocodile bait food, tin canisters, and all of this stuff. They, you know, the standard stuff we talk about, we talk about the racist marketing and how we came to have this negative disposition of ourselves. So I'm saying that I'm saying all that to say is that I don't think for one second, that white privilege is a thing that just because you're white, you automatically got an advantage. I'll say this. If you're white, And you're born in, I don't know, pick a place in North Carolina where there's a bunch of a bunch of poor white people, right? If you're white and you're born in Appalachia, how much how much privilege you really got, you know, you're less likely to get pulled over by a white cop. No, here's the recent numbers. white privilege is such a thing that you are more likely to get shot by the cops. If you're white, you're you're more likely to get shot. So I don't buy the white privilege as I just don't invite me because there's no there's no co. There's no coherent definition of white privilege. All we get is it's a feeling it's a passive advantage that people may know or not know that they have there's no it's not a tangible thing. It's like It's like race. It's a malleable tangible one.
Sam Dozier 33:47
The young man Dylann Roof that shot up the church nine people inside the church right okay, this is what right white privilege look like this get in (inaudiable) let me say (inaudiable) No forget about that he didn't get killed because no, I don't believe that he should have gotten killed just like I don't believe the other criminals any criminal activity from a black person. They shouldn't necessarily get killed either though, right, you see what I'm saying? They should get arrested, apprehended and then let the court system do what it wants to do. Right, so that's what I'm saying. So watch this though. But not here's the white privilege that happened with Dylann Roof though when he said he was hungry on his way to jail. What did they do? They gave him Burger King. You think would have gave a young black dude some Burger King after killing nine white people in the church? Do you think that would have happened you know, it wouldn't happen so don't even act like that's white privilage that's what it looks like. Now let's go back to.
Addul El Ali 34:37
So they didnt give him something to eat because he was hungry. They got it for him because he was white.
Sam Dozier 34:42
No, they cared about him when I'm saying remember what I said in the beginning. White privilege is something with the absent of the word white. It should just be a privilege, we're asking for the same privileges if I as a black person was shot up a lot of people and all of those types of thing happened and if I was hungry, I would hope that you would do the same thing for me because I'm human. And I made a, you know, crazy decision to do what I did. That's how they felt that they had empathy for him then. So what I'm saying is because they were able to empathize with a person that just killed nine people inside of a church, they extended that privilege to him. Now by him being white do I think that has something to do with yes, by him not being black? Do I think that probably has something to do with that as well? Yes. by him not being killed. Yes, now, even if you go about the young man that shot up the movie theater, that kid had a assault rifle and he saw probably what about 60 people or whatever it was, it was something horrific, right. They apprehended him. When you talking about Columbine, you talking about all of these type of assaults that have that have happened? These young white men, young white guys are being apprehended, okay?
Jason Huddle 35:55
The Columbine shooters killed themselves.
Sam Dozier 35:56
Yeah, they killed himself. But what about the other guy? They should
Addul El Ali 36:00
you remember that these (inaudiable) in jail, didn`t they take him alive, didn`t they take the and I could go on YouTube all day long and look at cops and look at all these videos, the cameras are running the idea that somehow in America in 2020 that simply because you're black, just simply because of that no other reason. I don't know what was in that police officers mind when he got Dylann Roof there. He might have been thinking, you know what, you ain't gonna get nothing to eat for a long time because of what you're about to go through, let me get and I don't know that. I'm just saying I don't ever have enough information to jump on, it's a racist bandwagon that fast. I don't know how people get this inside information to say it's based on race. Where are we getting this from?
Sam Dozier 36:48
I think that's why we are where we are right now. Because people want to continue to think things through instead of believing what the (inaudiable) is telling him.
Addul El Ali 36:57
Did you hear that? Woah, what in the world? And that is the problem we have right now in America. Everybody wants to believe something. Nobody wants to stop for a second and go yo, do we have objective reality on this? Do we have real objective reality on how many people are getting killed by the police? And the answer is, yes, we got the objective reality. Why would I not want to take on the objective reality and deal with the facts that are in evidence? It does us a humongous disservice to be intellectually lazy and not look at the reality that's on the ground. Because what we're doing is we're putting attention on something that's a pimple and instead of dealing with the big wound opening, gaping sucking chest wound, and that's the that is the big problem. Listen, white people gonna do what white people whatever that means, white people have been taking care of themselves. Black people in this country by and large, were taking care of themselves up until the 1950s, late 1950s, early 1960s, we're not talking about a society that wasn't naturally integrating who did this who put these ideas in our head that every move that this country has made has been towards freedom has been towards equality. Now all of a sudden, now all of a sudden you get one bad actor, one cop that and you can put one incident in front of millions of people, you can put, we wouldn't of knew 200 years ago, 100 years ago, anything that was happening off 100 miles that way for the love of God. Now, I get inundated with negativity after negativity after negativity after problem after problem. But you're not telling, they don't tell you that there's more black men in college than there are in prison. They don't tell you that African American women are becoming the most credential people in the country. They don't tell you that African American businesses, by and large are becoming the fastest growing businesses in the country, they don't say that stuff. All we get told is it's a problem and the black man's under siege and I'm like where? Because you can't and you'd be hard pressed, not near neither one of y'all two. Point me to the wall right now that says you shall not because you're black.
Jason Huddle 39:14
I have to throw it to break. Sorry to do that. When we come back, we're going to finish up the show and finish up the conversation. And I want to talk a little bit, just to kind of piggyback on what Ali was saying. When it comes to the information that we believe versus the information we're being fed. We'll be right back after these messages.
Jason Huddle 40:44
Welcome back as we conclude this program, part two of our conversation on race relations and really, gentlemen we could we could have a 10 part series and we still wouldn't cover everything we need to cover. But we're trying to be concise Here, I want to talk a little bit about manipulation of information, just for a second, okay? And if you'll indulge me, and I know I told Ali before we started recording was gonna bring this up. And I'm not going to bring up a lot of specifics. But I'll just give you an example of something. And it really hit home with me of how quickly information can get changed. The facts of a situation can be morphed into something completely different within a matter of minutes in this day and age. And all of a sudden, someone is vilified, that really had no part in it. Let me give the example. We'll give though no specifics, but this did happen in our community inside Cabarrus County. A young African American Girl walked into a store. She gave a $20 bill to the clerk to pay for her goods. They have a machine that's supposed to identify counterfeit money. She went he ran through the machine, at least four times it would not accept the bill. He gave it back to her and requested some kind of form of payment, another form of payment. She paid with her debit card, got her goods left the store. End of story, right? Apparently not. She calls her mom tells her that the clerk accused her of trying to pass counterfeit money. And the mom came down there. Now this is a teenage boy, yes, he's white. He's a teenage boy. Just doing this job, the machine wouldn't take the 20. So he had no choice, right? All of a sudden, this kid is blasted on social media and the establishment for which he works his blast on social media, by this mother for being racist, for calling her daughter for accusing her daughter of passing, trying to pass counterfeit money. And somehow she she brought George Floyd into it. And before, I mean within literally minutes, this kid's name was out there teenage boy. And all he was doing was his job. Teenage boys out there as being a racist little thug is the word that was used. The business owner is out there trying to apologize by the way, he did give them their money back, he gave them a gift card. He did everything he could to defuse the situation. And yet she still went on social media, she still blasted them. And now there's a narrative that was been picked up by what would be considered a traditional African American website that has blown up the story. It's completely lambasted this kid, this business owner, who honestly didn't really do anything wrong, they were doing their jobs. And it hit me how quickly a narrative can be created out of something that didn't happen. And I bring up this story, because I see it happen, not just in racial situations, it happens in all kinds of specially political scenarios. I bring it up because it makes me question the information that we're giving. Are we seeing the information that they want us to see? Or are we seeing the truth? You brought up the story of dylann roof and him getting Burger King on the way home. Maybe he was given a little privileged because he was white. Maybe he wasn't killed because the cops that are around And said, Now you're not getting off that easy. You just killed nine people. You need to go to jail for the rest of your life, you're not going to do suicide by cop. We're not gonna let you do that. Maybe it was because he laid down his weapon. And what didn't pose a threat? That's good. There are all kinds of reasons I wasn't there. I don't know, right? People are all over social media commenting on this poor teenage kid, they weren't there. They didn't see it happen. They just take one person's account of it and run with it. Now. It's like a game of telephone. Because all of a sudden, as you watch the story gets shared and shared and shared, it gets worse and worse and worse.
Addul El Ali 45:39
I'm looking at it now and this kids are racist and you shouldn't have racist in your store and this is what got George Floyd killed and I'm like, yo, I don't even know that kid.
Jason Huddle 45:49
And, incidentally, he's been asked to take a leave of absence this 15, 16 year old kid because a defective machine wouldn't take a 20. Now all of a sudden, the machine was defective. The machine was the defective thats what the manager was saying.
Sam Dozier 46:04
The lady had a $20 bill that was legit.
Jason Huddle 46:07
Yeah, it was legit 20 dollar.
Sam Dozier 46:08
So all right, so watch this. And I totally understand all those points that you brought up and I definitely get that. But what we have to also keep in mind is why would a person feel that way? Why would a person feel like if I'm you say it was a little black girl, right?
Jason Huddle 46:25
It was a teenage black girl.
Sam Dozier 46:27
Okay, teenage black girl. Okay. Why would she even have that in her spirit? One because the temperature in the room right now because that is what happened with George Floyd. Now let's even go back to even even if it is kind of
Addul El Ali 46:28
Dhe'd have it in her spirit. If she's been told she's being treated differently.
Sam Dozier 46:43
We're in this environment right now. That's the why the man was choked out by me was because of the $20 bill that was a counterfeit $20 bill so that aligns with what is going on in her spirit. So now with the temperature in the room, being that George Floyd you know will say I too had a counterfeit 20
Jason Huddle 47:04
Which was her reasoning I guess that's how she got around but nobody brought up race except for her.
Sam Dozier 47:10
Right I understand that but what I'm saying is that is still what's in the room right now. We're still going through two weeks of why this man was choked out by me you know so so in her mind she's gone well, here it is. There we go again but let me back up for a minute because when people have counterfeit money nine times out of 10 the person don't even know that they have the counterfeit money they could have gone to the grocery store the client had it could have given them something so when you just exchanging money, you just stained your money. So when you
Jason Huddle 47:37
I don`t think anybody thought that this girl was intentionally trying to pass a counterfeit bill.
Sam Dozier 47:41
Okay, but that's what she's feeling. She's feeling this way like she's in my 20s. Now, especially now let's go back to the girl understands in the end, that her money was good, just like she thought in the beginning, right. So now when she's going through all of this type thing, now, let me go back to this and then go back to this because money is exchanged on a regular basis so many times in a day, right? And I guarantee you every piece of dollar bill that is exchanged is not run through a machine, okay. So what I'm getting at is, this is what some, some people will feel. So you're gonna run my money through because I'm black.
Jason Huddle 48:18
No, okay. Let me clarify put things in perspective, okay, this particular franchise runs anything $20 or larger through this machine. Black, white, purple doesn't matter.
Sam Dozier 48:32
Jason Huddle 48:33
That's what this kid was doing. The machine was defective. That's not his fault. And yet, he's the racist and he's the thug, and he's the person that shouldn't be employed. All because this lady went on social media, after she had handled with the manager after she had had a discussion and then puts out a narrative of the story. That, frankly, was an exaggeration of the truth at best, and a boldface lie at worst. And then now people are all fired up about it. And this poor kids name is all over Facebook, right? So again, it made me see how quickly media or social media or whoever, yeah, there's a narrative and make you get fired up about something that isn't even true.
Addul El Ali 49:20
They put out this video of a black man being arrested by a police officer. And it said, I didn't do nothing. I didn't do nothing, what you pulled me over for and if you were to watch the video, you would really think and be mad at this white cop for treating this black guy. You would really look at that. But then, oddly enough, the police department again releases the actual video. So they didn't show you that the guy was doing 102 and a 60. They didn't show you the part where he refused to drive to identify they didn't show you none of that. All you saw was I'm putting you under arrest and I do nothing, they edited that they edited it and they put it up on Tic Tok on one of those. What I'm saying is there are people Who are putting that in our spirit so that we can move with it? What I'm saying is, I think that the idea behind viewing the world through the lens of my skin color is a horrible idea. It's a terrible idea, because that's going to lead me to deal with people based on something that they have no over, no control over. You have no control over your skin color, but you have control over your values. You have controls over your morals, and you have control over your own decision making process. So I see incidents like that I see incidences, like the other African American lady that got pulled over and started crying and said the cop called her names and he put the video out and he didn't know we're seeing more and more and more of this. Do I think there are bad officers out there that are (censored) that did get absolutely. But do I think by and large in 2020 we got cops rolling around going he black get him. He black get him.
Sam Dozier 50:53
So stop and frisk did not exist?
Addul El Ali 50:54
Stop and Frisk was a democrat policy. So hold on, hold on. Stop and Frisk actually helped more people than it hurt. Oh, stop that. Here's what I'm saying. If you lived in a community where every single day your chances of getting robbed are one in 20, and every every single robbery that you can track went to a young African American person, wouldn't you want us doing something to stop it? How many people did not get (inaudiable).
Jason Huddle 51:27
I think I think you're both making my point. If the information that we received was completely 100% the truth one way or the other, then we would all be in agreement. But the fact that you have a belief Sam, have a certain progress of events, and Ali has a view of the same events but from a different light. Tells me that you guys have received the information in different ways. The same way for people regardless of color, and I think that's where I agree with Ali that we as a people, not as blacks, whites, whatever. we as a people need to take the time to educate ourselves on the facts of anything were researching. Don't just take a five second news clip, as fact, research it, figure it out for yourself. I think you will find in 95% of cases, whether you're talking about a liberal point of view, a conservative point of view, it doesn't matter. I think you will find it 95% of cases, that the truth is not exactly what they want you to believe. It's somewhere outside that. And this is the point where things got very intense, but I won't use the word heated because I never felt at any point that there was any animosity between one person or the other. That is not the case. But as I said, at the top of the program, I did agree with Sam, that the rest of the conversation was not productive to the end that we had to sign these episodes. If our purpose was to give perspective and allow different points of view to have a voice, then we were doing that up to that point, and then it just became a situation where that wasn't happening anymore. However, I do not want to be accused of doing exactly what I accused the media of doing. I do believe that the media manipulates I do believe that the media gives you a perspective in order to egg you on in one direction or the other. It gets us fired up in some cases when there's no reason to be fired up. And please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that George Floyd or that case, or others like him are not reasons to be upset. I'm not saying that at all. But what I am saying is there are certain occurrences that happen in our world, that the media takes a certain narrative. When the truth is far from that narrative, any objective person who takes the time to research, these occurrences should come to that same conclusion. That being said, I don't want to be accused of manipulating what was said in the conversation, or taking something out that one party or the other thought was important. So here's what I am going to do. We have a YouTube channel for Barris magazine. As soon as possible, I am going to take those outtakes, including the last 16 minutes of this show, as well as some outtakes from this show and the previous episode, and edit them together. So you can hear them in their entirety. If you would like that way they will be available to the public and you can look Listen to them, share them, do whatever you like with them. They're out there for a reason. But I did not feel the proper platform for those particular conversations. And also because of time, as both of these episodes ran twice the length of our normal podcast, I didn't feel they were appropriate to be included the episode. I hope you understand my reasoning. And I have conveyed my plans to Sam and Ali prior to the release of this episode. Now, if any of you ever watched veggietales, at the end of every episode, they would sing the what have we learned song? So what have we learned? Where are we at the end of two hours of conversation on these episodes? Where are we at? What have we learned? I don't know what you have learned. But here's what I have learned. I have learned to sit down and shut up and get perspective. I have learned that whether something in my mind is a real problem. If it's real to somebody else, it deserves a voice. It deserves your attention. It's not necessary that you agree with them. It's not even necessary that you do anything. What is necessary is that you listen, and then you empathize. Not sympathize, empathize. I'm going to tell you guys a little story that I told Sam after the Mics cutoff. When I was just about ready to go to college, I was hanging out with some friends in Morrisville, one night, there was a teenage Christian club. They're called Genesis Two and I was hanging out, we were actually getting ready to leave and we were waiting for the person that had driven us to come out. So me and a friend were out there by the car. Now this was a side parking lot. It's very dark and ugly and a group of African American teenagers began to make their way through the parking lot. When they saw us, they immediately surrounded us and kept trying to say things that would get us to give them a reason to fight. It was obvious what they were doing. We also knew that they were surrounding us for no other reason that we were white. What ended up happening was, although I came out of the confrontation unscathed, my friend had his jaw broken. He had a concussion. He was to use layman terms knocked into next week. That incident had a profound effect on me. And I was ashamed to admit to Sam that for a long time after I was trepidatious of African Americans, I would cross the street If I saw one coming that I viewed as a threat, I would not let an African American walk directly behind me. In fact, most times I kept my back to a wall if I could. It wasn't until I got to college and there was a young African American man named Karl, who lived on the same floor in my dorm. And Karl was a great guy. And he did not take no for an answer. And I think he made it his mission to show me that not all African Americans are like the teenagers that beat my friend up. He would come into my room at two o'clock in the morning, physically drag me out of bed to go to the Waffle Express. He was always singing. He was always friendly. And Karl was a man that made sure that you knew he was an ally. He changed my perspective very quickly, because I allowed myself to get perspective. That's what I hope these conversations have done for you. I'm not looking to change anybody's mind. What I'm looking to do is to get everybody to stop and listen to each other. Because it's only when we can sit and have real conversation that we can get anywhere. My friends, I've taken up enough of your time, please check our Facebook page Up Front with Cabarrus Magazine podcast for updates on when those outtakes will be available and they will be available very soon. I also appreciate your comments on these two episodes. What have you learned? I want to know, let us know by commenting on Facebook. Until next week, you have been listening to Up Front with Cabarrus Magazine a presentation of Cab Co Media Group and sponsored by Atlantic Bay Mortgage Group, Cabarrus Arena and Events Center, Cabarrus Eye Center, Certec Automotive, Concord Downtown Development Corporation, Family Wealth Partners, New Hope Worship Center, and Walk Cabarrus. I've been your host Jason Huddle, until next week, shut up and listen.